mountain lions in new hampshire

Give today. So you want identifiable backgrounds. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. Let's look for other evidence. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. Reports without physical evidence are not dismissed, however Fish and Game cannot verify a sighting report without physical evidence. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. But my experience was that the majority of these accounts could not be taken lightly. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. Yes. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. They're just moving around freely. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. John thanks. brings a lot of. Well thanks for sharing. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. Think you've seen a mountain lion. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. Have a photo. Erler is a senior naturalist at the Squam Lakes Natural Science Center in Holderness. I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. But you've done some reporting on this. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. It's listed as population of least concern. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. No I saw a camel. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. Peter Biello: Thank you for sharing that. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. But I was riding a mountain bike not far from my house. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. What's going on. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. So what those ranges. 50 feet above the most. So. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. Ive received pictures of dogs at odd angles, says Tate. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. I'll send it to you. And so. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred years, says Mark Elbroch, the Puma Program Director for Panthera, a global wild cat conservation organization, So even the folks who live with mountain lions still have a fancy and see something thats not there to me thats incredible.. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. Well let's talk a little bit about that. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. Or years or so. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. There's always been physical evidence to prove those situations like hair or fur scat hair prints pictures of the animal print scat hair. Women control our lives. Let us know your story and share your photos! We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. Caller: Oh yeah. Chartered: 1973 . Residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. I didn't see him online. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . Patrick Tate: Same here in New Hampshire too. Right. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. Theres tracks everywhere. Patrick Tate: Well. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. You saw what you saw. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. I've actually had to walk in on one or two now and look at what was going on and figured out what was going on. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. So so. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. There was a lot of DNA evidence. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. So Marty can you see what I'm getting at is the public sees different names and thinks that they're different animals but it's all the same animal. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. County road and all of a sudden a big cat jumps out of the woods over a stone wall stood in the middle of the dirt road as I rode towards it. The report came in from a conservation officer. 19 1957. I saw the tail end of a literally from behind the shoulder The Long Tail mountain lion crossing the highway going from Password to often Village downtown. Sam Evans-Brown: So I just had two thoughts which is that we hear a lot of these stories and all of us here have heard these stories. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. The great thing about pictures isn't the animal itself it's the background. Select image for larger view. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. OK. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. Caller: I do. The big cat has been extinct at least the eastern mountain lion has been extinct here since the mid 80s hundreds. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. No doubt in my mind it was. So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. John. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. Tell us your story. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. I think that you probably are. It's bigger but bigger and better world. It was in the spring flash kind of early summer and my wife looked at you look at the size of an adult bear and we were up in arms. What do you think that. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. It's you know I recognized their report and. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. From: Boomerdog in OK 08-Oct-07 And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Patrick Tate: Martin Like what about Panther Panther saying animals same animal and like a bit of trivia Guinness Book of World Records says the animal with the most names is in English alone they're supposedly 40 names for Mount lion. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. Absolutely. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. Thanks for taking my call. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. WMUR uLocal: On this trail cam video, an unidentified feline is spotted. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. Well within there. Thanks for your call. Well they are the same. Mountain lion or cat running across. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. First off if the standard for an agency to go forward with the public and put out a press release that them outlines here their believers are going to say I told you they'd been here the whole time. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. Can we go to the site. Right. And it's not really strong. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. These were normal everyday folks. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. People were calling the New Hampshire Fish and Game director's office saying why are you dragging your feet on this. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. I'm Peter B yellow. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. I tracked cats and all the western states. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. So one thing I'll add we're talking about natural dispensers but talking with the conservation officer in the 1980s they recall going to a residence telling a person you can live here but your mountain lion can't. Today, their range stretches from the Yukon Territory in Canada along the western coast of the United States, all the way to the Southern Andes in Chile. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Caller: I got home to my wife that a gene that you should have seen the cat. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. Some are included in lists of mountains, such as the Appalachian Mountain Club (AMC) list of the Hundred Highest peaks of New England, or the . There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. Mike thanks for your call. Caller: Absolutely. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. John you're on the air. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an PR. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. NH Fish and Game relies on physical evidence to answer questions about the presence or absence of mountain lion in the state. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. There was no sign of it. They don't know the direction they're going. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. Post your sightings and NH photos here! And why would they what. David Erler says some of them probably have. So the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station has a database on mountain lion and they can identify. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Is that typically what was happening there. Give today. JavaScript must be enabled for some features to display properly. Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. We had six copies printed out each. Phone number 1 800. About Us Media Kit Calendar of Events Volunteer Visit Learn Events Membership Support Your Visit BUY TICKETS Know Before You Go Directions and Information Our Animals Live Animal Exhibit Trail Hours and Admission Calendar of Events There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. Good morning guys. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. They just end up in these places. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. No that's a little bit outside the range. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. We'll push great photos to the front page. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. I have one that's more elaborate than that. Thanks for calling. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. Pat do they typically just move around a lot. Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. Were there any differences between these two that we could have noticed right off. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. It's completely possible that it may have spent time in New Hampshire and went undetected but had it stayed in the area ultimately it would have been detected over time. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Caller: And the more I thought about it the color of it it was definitely not a bobcat. So Michael follows with the question. There are mountain lion in Massachusetts. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? They kill big animals. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Okay. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". Right. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. They're very loyal to what the handler which makes them very dangerous to everyone else. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming.

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